Tuesday, January 24, 2006

´3D Realms´ gloomy about Nintendo´s future

While a growing number of third party developers from across all genres and territories have pledged support to the Nintendo Revolution, or at least expressed some enthusiasm and respect, the console seems to get the thumbs down from the classic shooter studios in the US. First, Epic Games´ Mark Rein seemed uninterested in the console, to say the least. Now the other big FPS studio follows suit, albeit far more polite (and less drunk).

On his blog, Scott Miller, CEO of 3D Realms (and founder of ´Apogee´, who financed ´id Software´), writes:
Many people have asked me to comment about the next-gen consoles, and frankly I have nothing enlightened to say. I've yet to touch the controller of any of them. I can't find a X360 to buy in stores, and we have yet to get a development machine sent from Microsoft even though Prey (3D Realm´s new game, developed by Human Head Studios) is being developed for their system.

My prediction for this new round of consoles is that the X360 and PS3 will wind up about equal in terms of sales, with Nintendo's Revolution coming in a distant third--perhaps this will be the last console from this company. The X360 gains ground on the PS3 this cycle by virtue of two points: [1] Xbox Live! rocks (from what I've heard -- again, no first-hand experience). [2] The X360 has a big head start over the PS3. Finally, I cannot comment on the Revolution's controller until I try one.
There are a number of comments left already that seek to clarify why Miller´s outlook is so gloomy. He answers:
I think that Nintendo shot their own foot off with the Gamecube, which was positioned too much as a children's system. (...) I have little faith in Nintendo's management to right their ship. They need to establish a compelling image for the Revolution, and rise above the kiddie image they currently have. Mario is cool and all, but it doesn't win the older audience like GTA and Halo.
It seems ironic that Nintendo has hinted at putting a far stronger emphasis on FPS games for the Revolution´s portfolio than they have done for previous systems. Yet both classic FPS development studios seem to be unimpressed with the controller idea.

At least John Romero (co-founder of ´id Software´) made optimistic statements regarding Nintendo´s future already a year ago:
Expect a ton of graphics of high quality. I don't see any revolutions in game design on the XBOX2 and PS3, but we'll see something interesting on the Nintendo Revolution and the Nintendo DS is already doing some cool stuff with the dual screens. I truly respect Nintendo's forward thinking.
In another post he also admitted being a huge ´Wario Ware´ fan. He has also founded a new company. But don´t get your hopes up. While both the company´s name and current project are kept secret, he has announced in job listings that it is a "unique multiplayer PC title".

Source: Scott Miller´s blog, John Romero´s website, 3D Realms history page
Image source: Codefish
Thanks to: Next Generation


Falafelkid said...

Not trying to get anyone´s hopes up. But, incidentally, Romero added in an article on Eurogamer: "When news of my new game somehow gets out, I think everyone will be a bit shocked."

Anonymous said...

Revolution will tell between trully games designers and level designers. That is for sure

Falafelkid said...

Well, I wouldn´t go that far. But you are certainly right: Out of Mark Rein, Scott Miller and John Romero, Romero is the most creative head by far.

Revolution_Gamer_0069 said...

Ok Falafelkid, thats not a bad find, but you have to rember that Mark Rein already said that when he gave it thumbs down he said he never touched the revolution, and he never seen the revolutions development kits. He even said that he may even be intrested in the rev, after talking to Jim Merrick he said that Unreal Technology would suit the revolution. I'm not saying your wrong, because your right about information thats months old. Time changes and so do peoples minds, Mark Rein dosent think so badly of the revolution now. He might not think the graphics are great as of now but thats fine. I never herd about the comments from that other 3rd party but hey the rev is racking up lots of surrport. 3dREALM is going to be quite upset when they are wrong. The revolution will most deffinatly be up there. I know it will, I have fait in Nintendo, they will pack a big punch if not win this coming gen. Time will tell, but just get ready for a big battle, and besides I the revs "BIG GUNS" are not revealed yet. The 3rd parties probably havent even seen the full rev as they havent.

truthkilla said...

"Many people have asked me to comment about the next-gen consoles, and frankly I have nothing enlightened to say. I've yet to touch the controller of any of them."

If you haven't even touch non then why say stupid comments like this one.

"My prediction for this new round of consoles is that the X360 and PS3 will wind up about equal in terms of sales, with Nintendo's Revolution coming in a distant third--perhaps this will be the last console from this company."

This person believes Nintendo can't grow. But if you think about it not only Nintendo fans are excited about the N-Rev, so are Sony and MS fans.

I'm sure you guy saw this poll on Joystiq.com but you didn't just go to this website.


"While our numbers might not match up with others, it's pretty clear Nintendo's strategy of being the side to the main course will prove effective. They might be surprised, however, to learn they are also the single most popular console, alone or in pairs... at least amongst Joystiq readers"

comment by Christopher Grant from Joystiq.com

Revolution_Gamer_0069 said...

Hey Falafelkid, I sent Scott Miller and George Broussard an e-mail regarding this case, hopefully I can slap some sense into them and get them to talk to nintendo, when I get an e-mail back from one of them I'll see if I can post it up for you to see as well as other people.

Anonymous said...

Miller is a moron

Like someone above this said, how can one comment on a system before trying it? Even Miller said it, but he went and did it anyway. Last system, indeed.

trip1eX said...

Yeah those comments don't worry me. The Epic guy never touched the controller and he sells 3d engines whose sales (for the new engine) rely on cutting edge technology of the 360 and PS3.

The 3dRealms guy seems to out of the loop with consoles. Basically admitting that he knows nothing about them yet it doesn't stop him from commenting on all of them.

I think the 3dRealms guy is right in that Nintendo does have an image problem with the typical 15-25 male videogamer demographic. Mainly because Nintendo's software itself it so closely associated with the console. I mean the 'Cube did have nearly every EA title, most of, if not all, the Ubisoft titles and also had Activision titles. It was missing a couple titles late in it's life. And some titles weren't done that well. But I think that was after 'Cube sales started slipping in NA.

I'm not sure Nintendo cares much about this young male demographic either. Hence their statements about expanding the market etc. They'll just go after different types of gamers. They showed that with Nintendogs and in Japan with their Brain Training games on the DS.

That being said they will have some titles directed at the 15-25 demographic. And this generation is the first (I think) with a new president leading Nintendo. We will see how many and we'll see whether they actively try and grab some 3rd party exclusives.

Benjdude said...

Don't anyone forget about the people who ARE excited for this console, even in the FPS realm (no pun intended). In fact this goes all the way up to Iwata-san and Miyamoto-san who have both stated being excited about the FPS genres on this console. Makes you wonder a bit about that new IP Shigsy is working on...

Anonymous said...

Until he has actually worked with the controller, I think its best to ignore his remarks about the REV.

I do agree fully with his statements about the GC. Nintendo really did shoot themselves in the foot, all thanks to their retarded marketing division.

Nintendo needs the young male demographic if they are to ever over take PS3 AND 360. I just can't see the REV attracting so many outside gamers that they will close the gap between the PS brand and over take them. They will attract new audiences for sure, but not as much as everybody thinks.

I hope for Nintendo's sake that they really push their marketing really hard because they lost that battle terribly with the GC and they payed for it.

trip1eX said...

Well they're doing decently in America with DStitles that aren't 'hip' vs the sexier pricier same 'old game PSP.

And of course they are kicking ass in Japan and Europe.

So you have to wonder whether they need all that demographic to sell well. IT couldn't hurt tho, that's for sure.

Anonymous said...

well at least this is a good post kid :D but one question isnt them the great team behind Duke Nukem Forever?... maybe thats why they are keeping the revolution so low because they will release that trash on the revolution just to make it look bad... beware with the 3drealms attack....lol good one

Anonymous said...

John R. (ID) is a fickle SOB. He made those comments a year ago, but I saw his interview on G4 where he stated that he didn't like it, he wouldn't develop for it, he would rather work on the 360 and PS3, and that, and now I'm quoting, "99% of new ideas fail miserably". John R. doesn't know what he wants, not to mention his games have been lack-luster as of late. I wouldn't take anything of his, word or production, to be of any value.

Anonymous said...

Oh the hate just never ends. Oh well I still have more hope for the Revolution than any of the other nextgen consoles. Why? Because its different. Nintendo has a plan I just wish they would explain it to the rest of us. E3 cannot come soon enough for my taste. I have a feeling crow will be on the menu for alot for doubters.

nz guy said...

i havent herd a person who has actually used the rev put it down.

Anonymous said...

well everyone seems to say that nintendo shot themselves in the foot with the game cube , but lets not forget that of all three current gen consoles the gamecube is only one that actually brings some money to the manufacturer. SOny might sell a lot of machines but they dont make as much money as nintendo on video games. of course image and credibility is important too , but as reggie said , the goal is to make some $$

Anonymous said...

What I hear you love the same old same old John R. will you most be one of the people that bought bulletproof. 50 Cent? More like 1,000,000 Copy Sold
Yeah that's true and it's a joke how crap like that sold. The game got a %46 rating on gamerankings. This is like one of the most lowest rated games recently and I just sold like crazy. If this as an indicator of what gamers are buying then the Rev is DOOMED. Go to shacknews.com to check it out.

d.m.a.n. said...

The guy that is having problem to make a Duke Nukem game is telling us the future of video games?

Yeah right...

Luca S. (Italy) said...

Hi to all! I think i will become famous for my OTs in that blog! :-)
Reading the RevolutionReport boards i've found a link to an old but interesting article (31/5/05) on financial situation of Nintendo.
The link http://www.buzzcut.com/article.php
On topic i will pay attention to 3D Realms when i will play with Duke Nukem For ever!
Luca S.

Urian said...

The PC market is a great laboratory where the rats are the stupid people that pays every year more than 300 euros for a new 3D card.

Use the logic, people like Romero or Mark Rein never did a good game in the playable side, they are only marketing tools for ATI an Nvidia.

If a game is a shit it will continue to be a shit and better graphics than others doesn´t help to hide this absolute truth.

The best PC developer is Blizzard with difference, Diablo, Diablo II, Starcraft, Warcraft, Warcraft II, Warcraft II and World of Warcraft are great games that when they have launched ran in any PC system without problems.

WoW>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>all the entire catalog from 3D Realms, iD, Epic and other idiots.

Anonymous said...

Prepare to eat crow.

Shoxware Games said...

Well, it's really funny, how some developers judge nintendo's revolution - even if like NOTHING - is known about the system! The developer refers to the lack of the GameCube - i mean what is that?

We just have to wait till' E3 2006, oh man i can't wait! All fake bloggers will shut their mouths, we know everything about the Rev and games, and we can all live in peace!

And before that developer slams the Revo, he should finish Duke Nukem Forever... it is in development for like... 8 Years!!!!!!!!

Anonymous said...

"Now the other big FPS studio follows suit"

"Yet both classic FPS development studios seem to be unimpressed with the controller idea."

You're talking about 3D Realms as if they're some sort of massive important FPS developer or something. They aren't!! They've barely made a game worth mentioning in 4 or 5 years (have they even made a game in the last 3 years?) never mind a top FPS. They are not THE other big FPS development studio (they're not even A big FPS development studio) and they certainly aren't one of the two biggest along with ID, to suggesr they are is, frankly, insane!!

Grandmaster B said...

qUmm is this guy for real? Why is he making such comments from speculation? This is just arrogant and ignorant.

You cant make such comments without getting down and dirty with the system by basing it on past products/events. He is not a business man in any sense. Or perhaps he is since he is praising the system that he will make the most from possibly.

Bringing easy of development I am sure will hurt him, but really to develop the flagship FPS's I am sure there will be plenty of use and many sales would come from the rights to use them.

Nintendo I believe are changing their image, look at the style of the system. Easily the most stylish of the system. This is only one point, but surely it shows a change in direction/demographic.

This is pure idiocy and thanks for the read Fal. Hopefully the guy will eat his words at a later date.

Anonymous said...

hey grandmaster, i have to disagree about "easily the most stylish of the systems". The ps3 looks fine to me and actually the 360 isnt bad either. the rev has a nice piano finish that will match my speakers, but a big blue light. who cares about the light? if you care about the light, the 360 has a big power button that changes colors (does nintendo's change colors?) when more controllers are connected. that is at least something new.

Falafelkid said...

Hi Anonym ("they're not even A big FPS development studio"). Of course, I don´t want to blow their achievements out of all proportion. But they designed some pretty cool titles like ´Duke Nukem´ and oversaw development of ´Max Payne´. Those were good games and I do think that 3D Realms is considered as one of the big FPS studios. At least, they will once ´Duke Nukem Forever´ comes out. If it ever does.

Taylor said...

Max Payne? Come on. He's stupid, but that doesn't mean he hasn't made anything of value in the last few years.

Is anyone else really NOT AT ALL excited about Prey? I want to be; I love it when dead games rise from their graves, but I'm not even a hundredth as enthused about Prey as I am about Fallout 3. Or Torn, but they're not bringing that back to life.

Anonymous said...

Screw them. seriousgamer007 lives!!! http://www.seriousgamer007.com

Anonymous said...

If that even IS seriousgamer007...!
Fake blogs...
Fake bloggers is the next obvious step. ;)

Raphael said...


Raphael said...

The link doesn`t work. So check this out:


id engine guru says that Xbox 360 is a 'real sweet system' and promises simultaneous development on PC and 360 for id's next big game

15:01 John Carmack, id's engine genius, part-time rocketeer and the man behind the original Doom and Quake engines, has revealed in a brand new interview that Xbox 360 will be id's chosen console platform as the company embraces its next-generation future.
It's a bold statement to make, given id's almost exclusive PC development history (although recent forays have included Doom RPG for mobile and Quake IV on 360) but Carmack told PC Gamer UK that the 360 is a 'really sweet development system' and that it will be his main 'target' for future id games.

So could id commit the ultimate PC heresy and switch to Xbox 360 as its primary development platform? Well not quite yet, but it's a distinct possibility as Carmack notes, "It probably will be. All of our tools are on the PC, and we're maintaining the game running on the PC, but probably all of our gameplay development and testing will be done on the Xbox 360."

-d's next much-debated-but-never-disclosed project will certainly be feeling the 360 love though, as Carmack confirmed that it was being developed at the same time for both platforms: "Our internal project is not currently announced ...[but] we're doing simultaneous development on Xbox 360 and PC."
However, there was good news for PC fans reeling from the shock of seeing one of their favourite developers switching its focus from PC to the supposed console dark side. Carmack admitted that despite 360's impeccable tech credentials, it still wasn't a match for the big beige box. "They can quote these incredibly high numbers of giga-glops or tera-flops or whatever, but in reality they're significantly slower than a modern high-end PC."

Unsurprisingly for a man who built his reputation as one of the world's leading engine builders,it was the Xbox 360's graphical capabilities which had Carmack most excited: "The graphics systems are much better. The capabilities of the Xbox 360 are really good on the graphics side - although, not head or shoulders above any PC stuff you can buy at a higher price point."

So as one of PC gaming's super high-profile developers switches focus, are we seeing one of the first nails in the coffin as we approach the long heralded death of the platform? Or is id's switch just a natural progression as developers look to cover their bases by developing in parallel on the most PC-like console platform? We welcome your comments in the forum below."

Falafelkid said...

Hi Raphael. Intersting stuff, but not too new I think. At X05 already, Hollenhead revealed that a new Wolfenstein was coming exclusively to Xbox360. If that interview is old, then that´s probably what Carmack is talking about.

therealabdallah said...

Oh man what a bunch of bullshit! Maybe he should worry about his own game first!
About Romeo, I cant find anything positive to say about his titles, except sure the first Doom was a big step forward, but after that my fascination was gone. I look at ID softwares games mostly as a measurement of how bad it can get. I wouldnt get disappointed if ID or 3D Realms never came close to the Revolution, and I think both companies highly over estimate their value.

therealabdallah said...

Theres a new article on eurogamer about Revolution by the way.

Raphael said...

The news I´ve posted is from today.

Varian said...


Why do you give these people's opinions any consideration especially when they haven't even used the controller?

Many developers, who haven't seen or used the controller (or have any other info) are no different from any other gamer. They do not have some inner insight onto the business. If they did, then they wouldn't be wage slaves, would they? They are not investors or business owners, just mere employees.

The Revolution, at its core, is a different business strategy with a different company/business structure of Nintendo behind it (as opposed to the gamecube, N64, etc).

I have seen no game journalist gather information on what INVESTORS think what is going on. This is where these companies and publishers get all the money. From what little I know...

-Atari founder Nolan Bushnell praised Nintendo's new direction and asked where all the gamers went. (This guy understands the art of mass appeal especially with him choosing PONG over the 'hardcore' games at the time like Computer Space.)

-Microsoft investors see the Xbox 360 launch as a problem and see Microsoft's revenues fall (along with sluggish PC sales). One major investor (not talking small stock here, but the funds that are $20,000 or more) had said that if he had invested in Microsoft's Xbox 360, he would be greatly worried. He was reading all the bad press and summarized, "Too many people want the Xbox 360 to fail..."

-Sony's financial backers have been grumbling about PSP's performance (I think the PSP is selling very well, but apparently it is not hitting what Sony told investors).

-Meanwhile, Nintendo's stock is shooting up.

There is just too much hype, marketing, and general BS in this industry. But what is great about the investors is they only want the money and aren't swayed by this stuff that is 'for the masses'.

We need to get opinions from those who hold the purse strings to this industry. I don't think these developers' opinions, especially when they haven't even used the controller, matter too much.

Remember how all the Mark Reins of the world laughed at the DS...?

Anonymous said...

3D Realms- Prey + Duke Nukem 3D= company that doesn't know how to deliver on promises. These aren't exactly the kind of people you really want to quote. They've banked their entire success on both those games and both ahve been in development for over 6 years now.

Anonymous said...

This is rediculous, if they are having trouble developing thier current gen Duke Nukem game (8 or so years in developement now?) how do they even expect to develope anything with the more complex multi core 360 or ps3? Given the fact he hasn't even had any hands on time with any of the 3 systems just shows how important his company really is and how ignorant he is. His statements are what I'd expect coming from a Gamestop manager who just seems to follow the current trends.

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