Wednesday, September 28, 2005

Intel and Microsoft endorse HD-DVD

Intel and Microsoft have chosen to endorse Toshiba´s HD-DVD format over Sony´s Blu-Ray standard. CNet writes:
Intel and Microsoft are combining their industry power in an attempt to make the HD DVD format the victor in a battle over a standard to succeed DVD.

Typical DVDs today can hold 4.7GB of information, but two dueling camps are trying to establish a larger-capacity format that will allow for the recording of high-definition television and the backing up of more data. HD DVD, supported by a Toshiba-led consortium, is up against Blu-ray Disc, which is backed by Sony and others, including the two biggest personal-computer manufacturers, Dell and Hewlett-Packard.

Intel and Microsoft believe weighing in on the HD DVD side will be enough to tip the balance. "We have a high expectation of having a single format, and that format is HD DVD," said Intel spokesman Bill Kircos.

There are several reasons the two companies went with HD DVD, said Richard Doherty, Microsoft's program manager for media entertainment convergence. Among them: HD DVD requires that movies be copied to a consumer's hard drive, making it easier for people to send movies around home networks; the format supports regular DVD recordings on the flip side of the disc, letting people sell hybrid discs to consumers who have DVD players today but fear their discs will be obsolete; and the format offers more capacity.

Obviously, this spells big trouble for Sony and their PS3. The PS3 will feature a Blu-Ray drive. Sony has already rallied some support in the movie industry. But without Microsoft and Intel, what good is that? Perhaps Microsoft supports HD-DVD also to strike a blow at the PS3. Either way, this could be the decisive point in HD-DVD´s favour. And if so, the PS3 will almost definitely be delayed. Sony will have to seriously reconsider including Blu-Ray in their console, because the format may be dead by the time the console is meant to come out.

70 comments:

HereticPB said...

That is normal for Sony though with Betamax, Mini-Disc, Blue-Ray, etc, etc.

I figure it would be best to support the format that the DVD forum or consortium supports which is DVD and HD-DVD.

sssd said...

i still don't think sony will reconsider including Blu-Ray in the ps3. I imagine they hope it will be enough to allow for a large enough install base to keep blu-ray alive.

as much as this is a huge knock against sony (especially after they had the bonus of HD-DVD being delayed) I don't think blu-ray is out of it just yet. They have a huge amount of companies backing them, including some movie industry groups. All that to say, no one is out yet, and this is shaping up to be a terribly bloody match.

Anonymous said...

I Think blu-ray will dead. anyway

1. it's really big so it need much more data for it both game and video

2. since i know some format like divx i can event put some movie i like to just 1 normal cd. ... so used this format on dvd will really something. so we don't need that much space ... event hd-dvd for movie (but game might hd-dvd)

3. blu-ray is much expensive than hd-dvd (someone tell me that blu-ray drive is 100$, dvd 30-40$ .. hd-dvd expensive than dvd 20% (so it 36-48$) ... i not sure this data).

4. someone who make zipdisk now do something to dvd to make it hold up much more data than event blu-ray i don't sure size but it used old dvd but new methord to read.

--------------------------------
Any way event Betamax and MD is not popular.
Both CD , DVD ... event FDD are made by sony and really popular.
[Now juse wait to see how umd and blu-ray will]

Anonymous said...

screw blu-ray and sony and whoever they represent. for this gen 30gb on hd-dvd is more than enough. plus they (sony and friends)are just trying to milk more money out of ppl with new upgrades to replace dvd player.just like sony said at E3 that ps3 wasto push their hd-tv sales. these ppl are all
money hungry assholes

robotplague said...

I personally think Blu-Ray is the better format but I had a hunch in the long run HD-DVD would be declared the winner. It really sucks they couldn't compromise for a universal format, greedy companies. Honestly though, as long as one format wins instead of petty consumer wars for the next few years. I was going to hold off getting any sort of player until one was considered the dominating format.

Anonymous said...

And let's be honest here: there is NO real consumer request for a next gen optical/DVD format with higher capacity.

Most of this is being pushed by the big studios, and personally I don't see it flying off just yet. Many people got their dvd player only recently - so why would they opt for a replacement right now.
It also lacks the "killer ap" that dvd's brought (sales of tv-series and a big improvement upon VHS in quality and durability)

Andrew Yoon said...

Well, without HD-DVD or Blu-Ray, we can't have HD-quality video (ignoring the awesome Windows Media HD DVDs). Don't you find it disappointing that we can watch Conan O'Brien in HD but not Lord of the Rings? The jump to a new format is necessary, although maybe not at the speed that the industry seems to want to go. Personally, I think Blu-Ray has a lot more going for it than MD or Betamax ever did. Sony's a lot more open with this format, and owns a lot more media studios. Also, the PS3 including Blu-Ray will give it a huge install base. It's going to be a format war, and in the end, not only do companies lose, but consumers as well.

Anonymous said...

Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa.

Lot's of misinformation here, including in the post.

First of all, HD-DVD does NOT have more capacity than Blu-Ray. Falafelkid, this should be corrected in your post. I know this is not a technology blog, but that will give a smack in the face to anyone faintly aware of the two formats, and it doesn't make the blog look good because it's misinformation. I'm actually shocked that journalism went out the window with this post, don't journalists check their facts?

1)The BD-ROM has much more storage capcity than HD-DVD, whether it's a basic disc or they are both scaled.

BD-ROM = 25GB
HD-DVD = 15GB

and two layers?

BD-ROM = 50GB
HD-DVD = 30GB

Already, TDK has a 4 layer 100GB Blu-ray Disc.

2) The movie studios are the ones with the content that will push high definition optical discs out there, and they are more fully behind Blu-ray, for two reasons.

a) Blu-ray is more secure.
b) Blu-ray's greater capacity.

Let me say it again.

DVD was a poorly though out, and horribly constrained format. Did you notice the compression artifacts in DVD? Why did we need a Superbit Series? And why was there still compression problems? Why did we need multiple discs?

HD-DVD is following in DVD's footsteps, but for high definition video AND next generation high definition uncompressed AUDIO tracks, HD-DVD is a shortsighted project, as DVD was.

The studios recognize this.

Sony had a good bit to do with the adoption of DVD (not to mention the hype...) by putting it in their PS2, so let's not underestimate what they can do with the adoption rate here.

I for one am seriously happy that we will not be watching high definition movies with compression artifacts all over the place, WHICH IS THE DIRECTION HD-DVD IS GOING.

Thankfully, HD-DVD has delayed their launch into next year, and with the studios more strongly in the Blu-ray corner...

Look, I know this is a Nintendo site with a lot of Nintendo kids visiting (I'm a Nintendo kid myself), but that doesn't mean misinformation should be put up, even if it does portray Sony in a worse light.

Anonymous said...

falafelkid had nothing to do about this report you moron, he just posted it from cnet...read before acusing fool

Anonymous said...

Wow, you're so smart.

So smart that you failed to realize THE BOTTOM PARAGRAPH IS FALAFELKID'S COMMENTS, and that's where the misinformation is, not in the CNET quote.

Ignorant kids, what are you learning in school if you can't see the difference between the body of a text and a quote?

DlphnMod said...

It looks like I will be forced to buy a deck that supports both formats just as I did with SACD vs DVD Audio.

Thank the Lord for DENON and their kick-ass products.

Blu-ray is easily the better product with its higher capacity, faster bitrate, and scratch resistant coating. The downside is that, yes it will cost more as media and hardware.

E-phonk said...

According to microsoft - blueray's capacity is only bigger in theory, hence the remark of the CURRENT state of technology:

Quote:
The surprise entry in Microsoft's and Intel's list of failures is disc storage capacity. On paper, Blu-ray appears to have the advantage. But the two companies looked beneath the paper: Capacity, said Ribas, "used to be the biggest advantage of Blu-ray, and we believed it. We thought, they'll get 50 GByte BD-ROM discs working, but it's not happening, and it's nowhere in sight. There are not even pilots. It's only in the lab that they are building these discs." With regard to demonstrated capacity, he told us, HD DVD-ROM actually leads BD-ROM by a score of 30 GByte to 25 GByte.

Toms hardware guide has a very good article about this:
http://www.tomshardware.com/hardnews/20050927_190208.html

Jay said...

... and just how long will it take for 60gb games to load up? *i know they dont load it all at once, but loading HD textures and godknows what else off an epic disc at a limited speed is going to be sloooowwww.

remember; the faster the disc spins the more chances it has of crashing, faulting, disc exploding (very common with early CDR discs in CD-R drives, hey with Blu-Ray is the early days all over again), it'd be louder.

no. and with the legendary H.264 codec (better than DivX and WMV by decades) you can fit massive HD res vids on a regular DVD with no problems at all.

Red Bull and Vodka said...

While I agree that Hollywood does dictate much more than the tech industry any future HD format, don't ignore the power of the gaming market. In the PS2's first year in Japan, it was purchased for it's DVD ability by many adopters. DVD players in Japan where only a few hundred Yen less than a PS2 at the time. In dollar terms, the decision was a DVD player for $300 or a PS2 that plays DVD's for only $50 more. No brainer, right? Basically, people bought a DVD player that also plays PS1 & PS2 games.

It was a genius stroke by Sony. Remember Sony was a founding memeber of the DVD forum and is still paid about $1.50, via the 3C group, for every DVD player sold on the planet. At the launch of the PS2 with a DVD playback functionality in it - Not only do they sell PS2's, hence gain a user base to entice developers, their entertainment division cashes in on the DVD sales from their studios. Also, DVD becomes the dominant format quicker and people buy all kinds of different players, which Sony get paid on too.

The question is, come the arrival of HD-DVD players and the PS3 at about the same time (Q2 2006) what are you going to buy? The HD-DVD player for above $500 (most industry estimates) or the PS3 for about $400. Remember, the PS3 can do everything the HD-DVD player can do - But it also plays next-gen games.

Trust me, I am not a Sony fan (PS2 or consumer electronics). But they will be able to do with Blu-Ray what they acheived with DVD, and in six years time they will back, control and part own a new media format that will be the standard on the PS4.

And for those who say we don't need any more storage on a disc, in 1997 IGN reported a new game for the N64 that was coming in at a whopping 32MB. That was only 8 years ago...

http://ign64.ign.com/articles/061/061195p1.html

Anonymous said...

If Microsoft chooses to offer some kind of HD-DVD add on for Xbox360 they will be the true inheritors of Sega's home console legacy.. both the good and the absolute worst.

Doing that probably wouldn't hurt them immediately.. but Sega CD didn't exactly kill the Genesis, although it definitely hurt Saturn.

And alot of people are assuming MS wouldn't use the HD-DVD add-on for games. Why wouldn't they? Just because it wasn't available at launch? It's not secret that xbox360 developers are pushing up against the DVD9 limits very quickly and some are being a bit vocal about it. I can absolutely see in a few years MS putting out some stupid add-on to keep pace with the PS3 if they start catching alot of flak because of the multiple discs. They'll just try and have some 'killer app' ready for it. Video game companies have done stupid shit like that all the time. Don't think just because they're Microsoft they won't do something dumb like that.

Anonymous said...

As far as i know, MS and Intel DO NOT play big roles in this game, them endorsing HD-DVD means very little.

Anonymous said...

Exactly.

It's all about the studios, because they have the CONTENT.

Anonymous said...

Add on... MS... like to upgrade to hddvd... it wont hapen...

Tleast not like a perifelicar addon... at most they could realease a 360 with hdvd playbak funktion... BUT it wont be use for games...

Why... They won't want to segment their gamers by realeasing games in hddvd ... not after having realesed the 360 using normal dvd...

That would be sudacide... imaging the caos with the owners of the first 360... "am sorry you need to buy the 360 v2 to play this game, it is only avaible on hddvd"...

so... whataver sony desides it wont matter... they will have their games in the format they deside, I douth it will be HDdvd... most likely they have nothing to lose in terms of game produktion... and movies provided in hddvd will most likely play in the ps3... thouht they would like that movies be realesed in their format... but it wont happen, at least not as I see it going...

we, as costumers will have a hard time...

And I will be happy with my Revolutinn...

By the way... I am interested in the "holographic tecnology" that is said will hold up to a TERABYTE of data... look it up...

-iMoron

Red Bull and Vodka said...

FYI - Holographic discs have been around for nearly 10 years in laboratories. They are always funded by small companies who run out of cash before they can get them to market.

Check out "Constellation 3D" on google for an example.

The big guys (Sony, Matsushita, et al) sit and watch them go broke simply because they don't want you to have too much too soon. Can you imagine the quantum leap it would provide to the consumer? Why would ever buy another format? Thus how would they get your money?

They want you to upgrade every so often. It's their business model, just like the auto industry. Another good example is the guys at Dolby Labs; Sure every step forward is a little better, but do you really need it?

Dolby Surround Sound,
Dolby Pro-Logic,
Dolby Digital,
Dolby Digital EX,
Dolby Pro-Logic II,
Dolby Pro-Logic II-X.

Isn't it odd that not one of the mainstream consumer electronics manufacturers out there has found a way to update your receiver rather than replace it? Maybe it's not so odd when you think about it...

This is why we do not take a leap forward anymore. Only small steps...

Anonymous said...

^ Which is sad, because think of how far we would as a civilization be if it weren't for big business. Oil companies wouldn't be holding back alternative fuel sources, causing less pollution, causing more animals to live every day, causing more food for humans, causing humans to be more in touch with nature, causing a futuristic and harmonious civilization until the robots kill us all.

I see the need for a new media in video games/computers, but I don't see the need for movies. HD movies- big whoop. Now you can see even more wrinkles on their faces! I don't see the need, right now, to upgrade from the DVD for the movie industry. Maybe in 5 or 10 years, but not now.

Anonymous said...

What, you're gonna need to see their wrinkles in 5-10 years, just not now?!

Anonymous said...

Microsoft CAN'T add HD-DVD unless they solve the problem of having no digital video out port that supports HDCP. They'd have to figure out some way to add DVI with HDCP or HDMI.

Component video will not be allowed to be used to move protected HD content, and this is all they have on Xbox 360.

HereticPB said...

Wasn't the movie industry big on the Circuit City Divx. The open, watch, then throw away dvds? I think they were.

Blu-Ray another flop for Sony.

HereticPB said...

Oh don't forget two sided Blu-Ray and HD-DVD discs.

"HD DVD has a single layer capacity of 15 GB and a dual-layer capacity of 30 GB. Toshiba has announced a triple-layer disc is in development, which would offer 45GB of storage. This is smaller than its primary competitor Blu-ray Disc, which supports 25GB for one layer, 50GB for two and 100GB for four. The surface layer of an HD DVD disc is 0.6 mm thick, the same as DVD but thicker than the Blu-ray Disc's 0.1 mm layer. The numerical aperture of the optical pick-up head is 0.65, compared with 0.6 for DVD.

These factors mean that HD DVD media is less expensive to manufacture than Blu-ray Disc, as HD DVD only requires modification of existing DVD disc production lines. Both formats will be backwards compatible with DVDs and both employ equal video compression techniques: MPEG-2, Video Codec 1 (VC1, based on the Windows Media 9 format) and H.264/MPEG-4 AVC."

"A single-layer Blu-ray disc (BD) can fit 23.3, 25, or 27 GB; this is enough for approximately four hours of high-definition video with audio. A dual-layer BD can fit 46.6, 50, or 54 GB, enough for approximately eight hours of HD video. Capacities of 100 GB and 200 GB, using four and eight layers respectively, are currently being researched; TDK has already announced a prototype four-layer 100 GB disc [2]."

Both will have artifacts due to compression.

wikipedia.org

Anonymous said...

1) The movie industry may have been big on divx, but without the movie industry, you have no need for either format in the living room, so it's not about what they do back, it's about what they DON'T back.

2) How do you figure both will have artifacts?

Do you know what artifacting is?

Artifacting occurs when there is too much compression, and the image quality suffers. Some examples of these symptoms are blockiness or reduced color gradation. This is what the Superbit Series was trying to cure.

The fact is that since Blu-ray has that much more space available to it, 25GB, 50GB, 100GB, THEY WON'T HAVE TO OVERCOMPRESS TO FIT THE HD VIDEO and multiple high quality audio streams.

Where you came up with this idea that both will have artifacting is insane. Is it because they use similar compression methods? That doesn't mean they will both have image problems due to overcompression, the BITRATE is what dictates that threshold when the codec is the same. Blu-ray has the advantage.

Regardless of what anyone thinks, the movie industry is backing Blu-ray because of this very reason.

And that stuff about it costing more because of retooling was something brought out early in the process by the HD-DVD camp and has been proven to be bunk.

Anonymous said...

this blog should focus more on investigating possible games in development for nintendo's revolution.

who cares about specs or what format MS wants to use to 'hurt' Sony. let's see some damn games.

Anonymous said...

Well if you have a problem with this, you can still run a blog yourself.
While it's not directly Nintendo/Revolution-related, i don't think it's irrelevant.

Anonymous said...

Ok on this format
HD-tv video size + 5 chanal audio don't do any compress.

playtime ....both (just) single layer ...
Blue-Ray about 5 h
hd-dvd about 3 h

*BUT* wait normally video are 1.5-2.5 h -so used the rest for ... demo?-

just 2 layer of HD-dvd is too much (it's 6 h... take nearly all day) ... (and who might need it 4 layer of HD-dvd are 12 h take all day)

This is "NO" compression and you pay expensive ... for? (just keep it ? more demo ? - -")

Anonymous said...

Yes this really hurt Sony.
ps3 seem too expensive. But using ps3 to promote Blue-Ray is. Some time reudce price on ps3 is ok. But if HD-dvd come in same time Blue-Ray. it's critical damage to sony.

Ps3 too expensive. But can't reduce prize , Blue-Ray video have HD-dvd as competition , Bule-Ray is 100% expensive than dvd and 6-70% than HD-dvd.

revolution prize cheap than 360-box and seem ps3 will 2time 360-box.

Blue-Ray disk will more expensive than HD-dvd but HD-dvd is Too big already.

So it's hard itme sony.

Anonymous said...

Personally i think that there will be HD DVD for movies and such while games will be reserved for blue ray except for the revolution of course.

the reason i belive is because the average joe won't know the difference between all these formats only the cost and how much it costs and they are looking at how cheap it is.

most people seem to forget about the average joe the person who doesn't play videogames or doesn't program computers i pity them

Falafelkid said...

Hello and thank you so much for all the constructive comments - apart from that stupid anonymous biter who apparently can´t read... where did I write anything about storage capacity myself? Moron. Anyway, a big thanks to everyone else´s constructive comments.

Red Bull and Vodka said...

I may be reading these comments incorrectly, but it sounds like some of you think that the PS3 will support HD-DVD movies. It will not. Period.

Sony are yet to produce a DVD-Audio player, as they created the competing format of SACD. Sony's train of thought is "Why make your product more expensive and give the consumer the choice of an alternative format that you don't control and earn licensing fees from?"

In the early days of the impending format wars, Movies will be released on both formats, (Lord of the Rings on HD-DVD only and Star Wars on Blu-Ray only for example). Some electronics manufacturers have already committed to dual format players (Samsung announced this a few weeks ago) so as to get the consumer over the multi-format hurdle.

Gaming is a different matter though. I believe Blu-Ray will have a stranglehold on gaming, eventually. The X-Box 360 may have the functionality (I don't recall hearing one way or the other) to use the HD-DVD format for gaming, but they can only use it for movie playback during the 360's lifecycle. Imagine the customer outrage if your early X-Box 360 (Pre-HD DVD edition) won't play Halo 4 because it is a HD-DVD game only. Hardcore gamers will upgrade, but casual gamers (where the money is made) will not. The only option for Microsoft is multiple SKU's - one for a normal DVD-9 version of a game on multiple discs and the other for the single disc HD-DVD version. This is expensive for the developers and consumers would buy the wrong versions because they are generally pretty stupid.

Sony has the upperhand due to it's early adoption of Blu-Ray before it becomes mainstream. Sure, PS3's early games will only use a fraction of the space available, but come the end of this next generation, Blu-Ray will be utilizing most of it's capacity while the 360 developers will be running out of space quickly. Remember - most of the early PS2 games were on CD not DVD until the extra space became necessary.

Just my quasi-educated $0.02, but I guess we'll find out for real over the next six months or so...

Anonymous said...

Red Bull and Vodka, i guess you have your points,but really if xbox360 ran out of space on one disk they could always use 2 disk

Red Bull and Vodka said...

Understood. But if developers are already being vocal about the capacity limits of DVD-9 on the first set of games coming out for the 360, what is it going to be like in four years time when the 360 is at it's peak sell through?

If you build it, they will come. Give someone 25GB of storage and they will use it. If a developer can be lazy and has the space not to do something in the most efficient way, then they will. The code for the first batch of PS3 games will be messy, repetative and redundant as there is a lot of space for it to reside upon. When developing that same game for the 360, the developer is not afforded that same luxury of space. I think that this will be an issue in the 360's mid to late lifecycle on cross-platform games.

Anonymous said...

alot of that space will be used to just run things uncompressed.

i'm sure it will also allow for games with insanely huge streaming worlds as well.

but alot of i guess "normal sized" games will use the space to hold uncompressed audio and all that good stuff, and it'll allow for a more polished feel on blu-ray games.

hd-dvd and blu-ray are both good formats but blu-ray is going to be in ps3. that's going to be at least 50 million units, and that's me giving the competition credit.

Anonymous said...

Falafelkid: "Hello and thank you so much for all the constructive comments - apart from that stupid anonymous biter who apparently can´t read... where did I write anything about storage capacity myself? Moron. Anyway, a big thanks to everyone else´s constructive comments. "

Wow, I thought more of you Falafelkid. Who knew you were the kind of person to call people the same names elementary school kids on the playground call one another.

DlphnMod said...

First of all, lets not fight with the moderator. He's doing his best to not flip out when you guys flame him.

Anyway, i mostly agree with anonymous's points on developers being eager for more space. It will definitely become an issue on x360 eventually. However I don't believe that the extra room to work with making games will have any bearing on the success of the format. The real issue is movies. The format that wins the consumer film battle will be the one that becomes standard. If HD DVD ends up becoming more widely accepted by the public, then in the future, SONY may find themselves in a pickle where their system uses a defunct format.

Also keep in mind that even though PS3 games may allow for quick, sloppy disc structure, the PS3 hardware is more costly to develop for than XBOX 360. So Blu-Ray is not saving anyone any time or money.

Anonymous said...

Blu-ray should be good for games with all of the space it has, like the GC minidisk was good for loading things fast. I don't see why there can't be a media that only devotes itself to one thing, for the time being at least.

Anonymous said...

4 layer of HD-dvd provide 60GB That too big already.

But if you need really *Big* space. Iomega Corporation Tell that thay found a way to make a normal dvd to have 800 gigabyte.(just change the way to read and write) O_o

ya 8 time Blu-ray Disc.
and seem cheaper than than Blu-ray Disc.

Remember - most of the early PS2 games were on CD not DVD - So Blue-Ray is something no-nedd but expensive.

Anonymous said...

ok i dont know alot about this kinda stuff but after reading the last half of the posts i was wondering whats going to happen to the nintendo revolution.

if they use dvd discs wouldnt they start to run outa space near the middle of the revo's lifetime too?

or wouldnt the ported games on the revo feel compressed and less polished than games on other systems?

i know the format taht nintendo is gona use hasn't been announced yet but isn't nintendo choosing not to enter this format war? what other formats are there that they could use? sry if i sound stupid because i realy dont know anything about this stuff

Red Bull and Vodka said...

"Remember - most of the early PS2 games were on CD not DVD."

True, however note;

"Remember - most, if not all, of the latest PS2 games are on DVD not CD."

Thus, Blu-Ray's capacity will be be a requirement towards the end of the PS3's life cycle. Re-inforcing my point that DVD-9 will be a limiting factor in the autumn years of 360 game development...in my opinion, of course.

Anonymous said...

Rev doesn't need as much space if it doesn't have HD. It still needs a lot, but not as much as PS3 and 360 to have as large of worlds. If Nintendo decides to hop on the HD-DVD bandwagen then they'll have some of the biggest games ever made.

Anonymous said...

I don't say that.
It's just ps3 is now nearly 7-800$. not include joystick.

while x-box sale at 399 plus 20g HDD. (it's 1/2)
and
Revolution under 200 $ (it's 1/4)

so ps3 too expensive

Remember - there is still small among of game that used dvd9 (9gb) and used them all.
and
HD-dvd as big as 60gb. and multi disk (like final fantasy 7) is possible.
while
bure-ray is twice expensive (mean I can buy 2 HD-dvd (60*2=120 gb) in same prize of one bure-ray disk(100 gb))

in the end if you write a text in to a dvd (yes dvd) you can used it till you die. and then think about game-maker

(ya ya thay have picture and video but multi disk or compression video is still there too - if you don't mind mp3 or even audio cd is kind of compression too the real one is only analog not any digital -)

Anonymous said...

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSS! I thought that I would feel lonely thinking that PS3 costs to much. Thanks Anonymous who posted at 8:25 PM. Lead the way to opening everyones eyes. I hope that you continue to post, you and everyone else who feel the same way. YES, YES, YES, YES, YES. Some people out there actually KNOW THE TRUTH.

DlphnMod said...

The only reason for concern of disc space is that HD FMV cinema scenes are going to eat up disc space like crazy. The gameplay aspecs would fit no problem on a standard dvd.

REV not supporting HD will of course never have an issue.

If XBOX 360 runs out of disk space, developers can opt to show FMV in lower resolution, or utilize the hard drive to fit more content.

Yes, Blu-Ray has the advantage over DVD-9, but the ridiculous price of the media and the PS3 is the reason I think it won't make a huge splash this generation. I also think when the dust settles, HD-DVD will end up the standard for HD video.

Anonymous said...

dlphnmod, that isn't true.

Enchant Arms is an RPG and developers of that game were publicly complaining in August that they were having problems fitting their game onto DVD-9 media BEFORE they got to FMV.

Anonymous said...

NO ONE here knows the price of Blu-ray or HD-DVD, so stop calling it ridiculous when you don't, CAN'T know what it is.

At least wait for them to announce prices or release the product at a price point.

Stop jumping the gun with this speculation purported as fact.

Anonymous said...

Ps3 will have

Intel p4 cell cpu (The Best of Intel)
Nvidia Rsx gpu (Nvidia say it's twice now best of Nvidia)
Blue-Ray disk (New production line by sony)
Multi-card render (Not just memory stick)
All wireless joystick (No slot for old joystick any more)

just P4 cell and Rsx it's price will surely ridiculous.

fact-sony : sony been decide to remove "router" couse of it's will make ps3 too ridiculous prize.

fact-sony : Blue-Ray and driver must make a new production line. and yes Blue-Ray have a new technology so it's price is at less 100$/unit (driver). this price will reduce in the long run. (but will it alive?).

fact-microsoft : HD-dvd used old DVD production line just edit it. so it's will 20% more expensive than DVD (for disk) and this price will reduce in the long run too. (so it's not that big).

----------------------------------------------------------
If microsoft using HD-dvd. that Blue-Ray disk might not going to next HD tv video format. So Sony can't reduce (surely ridiculous) prize of ps3.

Same way if ps3 not lead this next-gen console Blue-Ray will slowly die like Betamax or MD.

Not every one (But some one) will buy ridiculous prize console.
-so ps3 will not lead this next-gen console.

fact : it's too soon to say that ps3 will ridiculous prize but P4 cell and Rsx - -a .. sony must found a way to make some money ... if it still exist. after microsoft used HD-dvd.

----------------------------------------------------------
While that two fighting. Nintendo say we priority how fun our console will "not" how picture the game will. and it will cheper than 200$

Red Bull and Vodka said...

I agree on the 'ridiculous' comment, however the cost of the media is not the concern any more, it's the capacity of the media.

All disc formats have a similar cost structure in that they are low price compared to silicon alternatives and highly cost effective to mass produce. Mass producing solid state media has limited benefits.

Back in the day...

N64 cartridges cost around $20 vs the $0.50 for PS CD's. Even at this great disparity, N64 cartridges sold a sh!t load of copies as can be seen below;

The top three best selling games in the US for the N64 (Mario64, Goldeneye & Mariokart) combined to sell more than 15 million copies at a probable 'material' cost of $300 million, based on $20 per cartridge.

The top three best selling games in the US for the PS1 (GT, GT2, Crash Banidcoot 2) combined for less than 10 million at a probable material cost of $5 million, based on a material cost of 50 cents per CD.

Nintendo's cartridge cost up to 4000% more than a Sony CD, yet it's most successfull games outsold Sony's best efforts by 50%. But, Sony won out in the long run because of a publisher friendly medium (not developer friendly, but publisher friendly).

Sony basically said, "You have up to 650 MB for your developer to work with and it will cost you 50 cents in materials to publish."

Nintendo's reply was "You can develop & publish as big a game as you want, but it's gonna cost 'ya."

Publishers were more willing to work with developers on the PS as the financial risk was much reduced. So maybe, back in 'the day' format cost was a factor, but not now...

Blu-Ray, HD-DVD and Revo discs will not have that kind of wide ranging cost. The limiting factor will be capacity and capacity will not cost a publisher like it used to do.

That's what I think anyway.

Anonymous said...

"Ps3 will have

Intel p4 cell cpu (The Best of Intel)"

Whoever wrote the above is very confused.

The Cell came out of a partnership between Sony, IBM, and Toshiba.

Anonymous said...

Sorry I miss that.
Both "IBM" and "Intel" are support cell cpu. (So only "NEW" cell's intel cpu computer can speed up if ps3 is there)

event it's IBM's cell cpu it's The best of next gen console's cpu ? (So cpu will mose expensive any way)

and just Rsx gpu (just gpu) can match 200$
Blue-Ray dirver can match 100$
and other device have there (expensive) price too.

Sorry I think ps3 will ridiculous expensive anyway.

but sony must found a way to make some money. And ya i will look forword to it. and not buy any too fast.

----------------------------------------------------------
ps3 might successfull but ...

cost of the ps3 is the point.

- if sony sale ps3 at it's cost it's will too expensive.

- if sony sale ps3 less than it's cost. each unit of game must add some price. so each unit of ps3 will expensive (not the media as n64 but ps3 debit) and yes 100% price for media Blue-Ray disk if used it.

developer will don't like it

- form ps3 cost or each unit game price. number of people who buy it might less than other two that cheap. -eg. revolution price will match just rsx gpu (just gpu)- so the change that people who buy the game will reduce. *and more price* if use Blue-Ray media (20% up for HD dvd for x-box ... but Blue-Ray will more). Old developer know this point.

- Blue-Ray is too big for new developer so it will unused for them.

----------------------------------------------------------
n64 not successfull at all. The successfull is one that take more sum of (price - cost) (N64 have too big cost/unit -it's media-) so that time ps(1) successfull

Red Bull and Vodka said...

N64 WAS succesful, though as I highlighted, it was not as succesful as PS1. Who do you think made money on the cost of the media? Not only did Nintendo make money on licensing, they also made killer money on the cartridge. Sony control Blu-Ray and will make money, though not as much, off a developers choice to use that too.

N64 sold 33 million consoles worldwide. X-Box has sold 19 million. Which one was the biggest failure? Not to mention the fact that Nintendo made money on every N64 they sold, where as M$ X-Box division has lost $1 BILLION every year for the last 5 years.

Success is typically defined by profit in economic circles. I believe the videogame industry follows the same mantra. If the X-box 360 does not turn a profit by the end of it's lifecycle, I do not believe you will see an X-box 720. That's my belief, anyway.

Anonymous said...

I want what will happen in the future of Dell and HP both have pledged for the Blu-Ray.

But now that Microsoft is with HD-DVD, what will happen to them? Microsoft might blackmail them. You don't support us so you won't have Windows of your computers.

And if you want to know, The porn industry is with the HD-DVD. The same industry that chose VHS over Betamax. The same history might happen. Movies companies pledged for the Betamax and the VHS won.

For the video games industry, I don't see any developpers make a game with a disk with 50GB in storage. The 103 announced games for the PS3 are mostly remakes or sequels.

Red Bull and Vodka said...

"We have been intrigued by the broad support of Blu-Ray, especially the key advantage of including Blu-Ray in PlayStation 3," Lesinski said in a statement.

The PS3 format choice effects the world of Star-Trek, Mission Impossible and War of the Worlds.

The President of Paramount Home Entertainment (read ; DVD, et al) states that the key factor they chose Blu-Ray as well as the previously announced HD-DVD, was the PS3's draw. Apparantley, Warner Bros. and Universal are soon to follow...

www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6262261.html

OCT. 2 | In a stunning announcement Sunday morning, Paramount Home Entertainment has decided to support Sony's Blu-ray Disc format for the next-generation of high-definition DVDs.

Although Paramount will continue to support Sony's rival, the HD DVD platform from Toshiba, the studio is the first to end its singular commitment to one format, which both sides had hoped would give the industry its best chance of avoiding a Betamax/VHS-like format war.

With Warner and Universal expected to follow suit very shortly, Paramount's decision potentially throws the decision once again into the hands of consumers and retailers next year. Both formats are expected to be introduced next spring.

Thomas Lesinski, Paramount Pictures president of worldwide home entertainment, one of the staunchest supporters of HD DVD, said in a statement Sunday that the studio will release movies on Blu-ray in North America, Japan and Europe as soon as Blu-ray hardware launches in those markets.

"We have been intrigued by the broad support of Blu-Ray, especially the key advantage of including Blu-Ray in PlayStation 3," Lesinski said in a statement. "After more detailed assessment and new data on cost, manufacturability and copy protection solutions, we have now made the decision to move ahead with the Blu-ray format. We believe the unique portfolio of Viacom content coupled with this format will provide great benefit for consumers and our shareholders alike."

Blu-Ray is not dead. Far from it.

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Free open-source gamer's treat unleashed (Macworld UK)
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Blu-Ray is definitely the better format!

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