Intel and Microsoft are combining their industry power in an attempt to make the HD DVD format the victor in a battle over a standard to succeed DVD.
Typical DVDs today can hold 4.7GB of information, but two dueling camps are trying to establish a larger-capacity format that will allow for the recording of high-definition television and the backing up of more data. HD DVD, supported by a Toshiba-led consortium, is up against Blu-ray Disc, which is backed by Sony and others, including the two biggest personal-computer manufacturers, Dell and Hewlett-Packard.
Intel and Microsoft believe weighing in on the HD DVD side will be enough to tip the balance. "We have a high expectation of having a single format, and that format is HD DVD," said Intel spokesman Bill Kircos.
There are several reasons the two companies went with HD DVD, said Richard Doherty, Microsoft's program manager for media entertainment convergence. Among them: HD DVD requires that movies be copied to a consumer's hard drive, making it easier for people to send movies around home networks; the format supports regular DVD recordings on the flip side of the disc, letting people sell hybrid discs to consumers who have DVD players today but fear their discs will be obsolete; and the format offers more capacity.
Obviously, this spells big trouble for Sony and their PS3. The PS3 will feature a Blu-Ray drive. Sony has already rallied some support in the movie industry. But without Microsoft and Intel, what good is that? Perhaps Microsoft supports HD-DVD also to strike a blow at the PS3. Either way, this could be the decisive point in HD-DVD´s favour. And if so, the PS3 will almost definitely be delayed. Sony will have to seriously reconsider including Blu-Ray in their console, because the format may be dead by the time the console is meant to come out.
That is normal for Sony though with Betamax, Mini-Disc, Blue-Ray, etc, etc.
ReplyDeleteI figure it would be best to support the format that the DVD forum or consortium supports which is DVD and HD-DVD.
I Think blu-ray will dead. anyway
ReplyDelete1. it's really big so it need much more data for it both game and video
2. since i know some format like divx i can event put some movie i like to just 1 normal cd. ... so used this format on dvd will really something. so we don't need that much space ... event hd-dvd for movie (but game might hd-dvd)
3. blu-ray is much expensive than hd-dvd (someone tell me that blu-ray drive is 100$, dvd 30-40$ .. hd-dvd expensive than dvd 20% (so it 36-48$) ... i not sure this data).
4. someone who make zipdisk now do something to dvd to make it hold up much more data than event blu-ray i don't sure size but it used old dvd but new methord to read.
--------------------------------
Any way event Betamax and MD is not popular.
Both CD , DVD ... event FDD are made by sony and really popular.
[Now juse wait to see how umd and blu-ray will]
screw blu-ray and sony and whoever they represent. for this gen 30gb on hd-dvd is more than enough. plus they (sony and friends)are just trying to milk more money out of ppl with new upgrades to replace dvd player.just like sony said at E3 that ps3 wasto push their hd-tv sales. these ppl are all
ReplyDeletemoney hungry assholes
I personally think Blu-Ray is the better format but I had a hunch in the long run HD-DVD would be declared the winner. It really sucks they couldn't compromise for a universal format, greedy companies. Honestly though, as long as one format wins instead of petty consumer wars for the next few years. I was going to hold off getting any sort of player until one was considered the dominating format.
ReplyDeleteAnd let's be honest here: there is NO real consumer request for a next gen optical/DVD format with higher capacity.
ReplyDeleteMost of this is being pushed by the big studios, and personally I don't see it flying off just yet. Many people got their dvd player only recently - so why would they opt for a replacement right now.
It also lacks the "killer ap" that dvd's brought (sales of tv-series and a big improvement upon VHS in quality and durability)
Well, without HD-DVD or Blu-Ray, we can't have HD-quality video (ignoring the awesome Windows Media HD DVDs). Don't you find it disappointing that we can watch Conan O'Brien in HD but not Lord of the Rings? The jump to a new format is necessary, although maybe not at the speed that the industry seems to want to go. Personally, I think Blu-Ray has a lot more going for it than MD or Betamax ever did. Sony's a lot more open with this format, and owns a lot more media studios. Also, the PS3 including Blu-Ray will give it a huge install base. It's going to be a format war, and in the end, not only do companies lose, but consumers as well.
ReplyDeleteWhoa whoa whoa whoa whoa.
ReplyDeleteLot's of misinformation here, including in the post.
First of all, HD-DVD does NOT have more capacity than Blu-Ray. Falafelkid, this should be corrected in your post. I know this is not a technology blog, but that will give a smack in the face to anyone faintly aware of the two formats, and it doesn't make the blog look good because it's misinformation. I'm actually shocked that journalism went out the window with this post, don't journalists check their facts?
1)The BD-ROM has much more storage capcity than HD-DVD, whether it's a basic disc or they are both scaled.
BD-ROM = 25GB
HD-DVD = 15GB
and two layers?
BD-ROM = 50GB
HD-DVD = 30GB
Already, TDK has a 4 layer 100GB Blu-ray Disc.
2) The movie studios are the ones with the content that will push high definition optical discs out there, and they are more fully behind Blu-ray, for two reasons.
a) Blu-ray is more secure.
b) Blu-ray's greater capacity.
Let me say it again.
DVD was a poorly though out, and horribly constrained format. Did you notice the compression artifacts in DVD? Why did we need a Superbit Series? And why was there still compression problems? Why did we need multiple discs?
HD-DVD is following in DVD's footsteps, but for high definition video AND next generation high definition uncompressed AUDIO tracks, HD-DVD is a shortsighted project, as DVD was.
The studios recognize this.
Sony had a good bit to do with the adoption of DVD (not to mention the hype...) by putting it in their PS2, so let's not underestimate what they can do with the adoption rate here.
I for one am seriously happy that we will not be watching high definition movies with compression artifacts all over the place, WHICH IS THE DIRECTION HD-DVD IS GOING.
Thankfully, HD-DVD has delayed their launch into next year, and with the studios more strongly in the Blu-ray corner...
Look, I know this is a Nintendo site with a lot of Nintendo kids visiting (I'm a Nintendo kid myself), but that doesn't mean misinformation should be put up, even if it does portray Sony in a worse light.
falafelkid had nothing to do about this report you moron, he just posted it from cnet...read before acusing fool
ReplyDeleteWow, you're so smart.
ReplyDeleteSo smart that you failed to realize THE BOTTOM PARAGRAPH IS FALAFELKID'S COMMENTS, and that's where the misinformation is, not in the CNET quote.
Ignorant kids, what are you learning in school if you can't see the difference between the body of a text and a quote?
According to microsoft - blueray's capacity is only bigger in theory, hence the remark of the CURRENT state of technology:
ReplyDeleteQuote:
The surprise entry in Microsoft's and Intel's list of failures is disc storage capacity. On paper, Blu-ray appears to have the advantage. But the two companies looked beneath the paper: Capacity, said Ribas, "used to be the biggest advantage of Blu-ray, and we believed it. We thought, they'll get 50 GByte BD-ROM discs working, but it's not happening, and it's nowhere in sight. There are not even pilots. It's only in the lab that they are building these discs." With regard to demonstrated capacity, he told us, HD DVD-ROM actually leads BD-ROM by a score of 30 GByte to 25 GByte.
Toms hardware guide has a very good article about this:
http://www.tomshardware.com/hardnews/20050927_190208.html
... and just how long will it take for 60gb games to load up? *i know they dont load it all at once, but loading HD textures and godknows what else off an epic disc at a limited speed is going to be sloooowwww.
ReplyDeleteremember; the faster the disc spins the more chances it has of crashing, faulting, disc exploding (very common with early CDR discs in CD-R drives, hey with Blu-Ray is the early days all over again), it'd be louder.
no. and with the legendary H.264 codec (better than DivX and WMV by decades) you can fit massive HD res vids on a regular DVD with no problems at all.
If Microsoft chooses to offer some kind of HD-DVD add on for Xbox360 they will be the true inheritors of Sega's home console legacy.. both the good and the absolute worst.
ReplyDeleteDoing that probably wouldn't hurt them immediately.. but Sega CD didn't exactly kill the Genesis, although it definitely hurt Saturn.
And alot of people are assuming MS wouldn't use the HD-DVD add-on for games. Why wouldn't they? Just because it wasn't available at launch? It's not secret that xbox360 developers are pushing up against the DVD9 limits very quickly and some are being a bit vocal about it. I can absolutely see in a few years MS putting out some stupid add-on to keep pace with the PS3 if they start catching alot of flak because of the multiple discs. They'll just try and have some 'killer app' ready for it. Video game companies have done stupid shit like that all the time. Don't think just because they're Microsoft they won't do something dumb like that.
As far as i know, MS and Intel DO NOT play big roles in this game, them endorsing HD-DVD means very little.
ReplyDeleteExactly.
ReplyDeleteIt's all about the studios, because they have the CONTENT.
Add on... MS... like to upgrade to hddvd... it wont hapen...
ReplyDeleteTleast not like a perifelicar addon... at most they could realease a 360 with hdvd playbak funktion... BUT it wont be use for games...
Why... They won't want to segment their gamers by realeasing games in hddvd ... not after having realesed the 360 using normal dvd...
That would be sudacide... imaging the caos with the owners of the first 360... "am sorry you need to buy the 360 v2 to play this game, it is only avaible on hddvd"...
so... whataver sony desides it wont matter... they will have their games in the format they deside, I douth it will be HDdvd... most likely they have nothing to lose in terms of game produktion... and movies provided in hddvd will most likely play in the ps3... thouht they would like that movies be realesed in their format... but it wont happen, at least not as I see it going...
we, as costumers will have a hard time...
And I will be happy with my Revolutinn...
By the way... I am interested in the "holographic tecnology" that is said will hold up to a TERABYTE of data... look it up...
-iMoron
^ Which is sad, because think of how far we would as a civilization be if it weren't for big business. Oil companies wouldn't be holding back alternative fuel sources, causing less pollution, causing more animals to live every day, causing more food for humans, causing humans to be more in touch with nature, causing a futuristic and harmonious civilization until the robots kill us all.
ReplyDeleteI see the need for a new media in video games/computers, but I don't see the need for movies. HD movies- big whoop. Now you can see even more wrinkles on their faces! I don't see the need, right now, to upgrade from the DVD for the movie industry. Maybe in 5 or 10 years, but not now.
What, you're gonna need to see their wrinkles in 5-10 years, just not now?!
ReplyDeleteMicrosoft CAN'T add HD-DVD unless they solve the problem of having no digital video out port that supports HDCP. They'd have to figure out some way to add DVI with HDCP or HDMI.
ReplyDeleteComponent video will not be allowed to be used to move protected HD content, and this is all they have on Xbox 360.
Wasn't the movie industry big on the Circuit City Divx. The open, watch, then throw away dvds? I think they were.
ReplyDeleteBlu-Ray another flop for Sony.
Oh don't forget two sided Blu-Ray and HD-DVD discs.
ReplyDelete"HD DVD has a single layer capacity of 15 GB and a dual-layer capacity of 30 GB. Toshiba has announced a triple-layer disc is in development, which would offer 45GB of storage. This is smaller than its primary competitor Blu-ray Disc, which supports 25GB for one layer, 50GB for two and 100GB for four. The surface layer of an HD DVD disc is 0.6 mm thick, the same as DVD but thicker than the Blu-ray Disc's 0.1 mm layer. The numerical aperture of the optical pick-up head is 0.65, compared with 0.6 for DVD.
These factors mean that HD DVD media is less expensive to manufacture than Blu-ray Disc, as HD DVD only requires modification of existing DVD disc production lines. Both formats will be backwards compatible with DVDs and both employ equal video compression techniques: MPEG-2, Video Codec 1 (VC1, based on the Windows Media 9 format) and H.264/MPEG-4 AVC."
"A single-layer Blu-ray disc (BD) can fit 23.3, 25, or 27 GB; this is enough for approximately four hours of high-definition video with audio. A dual-layer BD can fit 46.6, 50, or 54 GB, enough for approximately eight hours of HD video. Capacities of 100 GB and 200 GB, using four and eight layers respectively, are currently being researched; TDK has already announced a prototype four-layer 100 GB disc [2]."
Both will have artifacts due to compression.
wikipedia.org
1) The movie industry may have been big on divx, but without the movie industry, you have no need for either format in the living room, so it's not about what they do back, it's about what they DON'T back.
ReplyDelete2) How do you figure both will have artifacts?
Do you know what artifacting is?
Artifacting occurs when there is too much compression, and the image quality suffers. Some examples of these symptoms are blockiness or reduced color gradation. This is what the Superbit Series was trying to cure.
The fact is that since Blu-ray has that much more space available to it, 25GB, 50GB, 100GB, THEY WON'T HAVE TO OVERCOMPRESS TO FIT THE HD VIDEO and multiple high quality audio streams.
Where you came up with this idea that both will have artifacting is insane. Is it because they use similar compression methods? That doesn't mean they will both have image problems due to overcompression, the BITRATE is what dictates that threshold when the codec is the same. Blu-ray has the advantage.
Regardless of what anyone thinks, the movie industry is backing Blu-ray because of this very reason.
And that stuff about it costing more because of retooling was something brought out early in the process by the HD-DVD camp and has been proven to be bunk.
this blog should focus more on investigating possible games in development for nintendo's revolution.
ReplyDeletewho cares about specs or what format MS wants to use to 'hurt' Sony. let's see some damn games.
Well if you have a problem with this, you can still run a blog yourself.
ReplyDeleteWhile it's not directly Nintendo/Revolution-related, i don't think it's irrelevant.
Ok on this format
ReplyDeleteHD-tv video size + 5 chanal audio don't do any compress.
playtime ....both (just) single layer ...
Blue-Ray about 5 h
hd-dvd about 3 h
*BUT* wait normally video are 1.5-2.5 h -so used the rest for ... demo?-
just 2 layer of HD-dvd is too much (it's 6 h... take nearly all day) ... (and who might need it 4 layer of HD-dvd are 12 h take all day)
This is "NO" compression and you pay expensive ... for? (just keep it ? more demo ? - -")
Yes this really hurt Sony.
ReplyDeleteps3 seem too expensive. But using ps3 to promote Blue-Ray is. Some time reudce price on ps3 is ok. But if HD-dvd come in same time Blue-Ray. it's critical damage to sony.
Ps3 too expensive. But can't reduce prize , Blue-Ray video have HD-dvd as competition , Bule-Ray is 100% expensive than dvd and 6-70% than HD-dvd.
revolution prize cheap than 360-box and seem ps3 will 2time 360-box.
Blue-Ray disk will more expensive than HD-dvd but HD-dvd is Too big already.
So it's hard itme sony.
Personally i think that there will be HD DVD for movies and such while games will be reserved for blue ray except for the revolution of course.
ReplyDeletethe reason i belive is because the average joe won't know the difference between all these formats only the cost and how much it costs and they are looking at how cheap it is.
most people seem to forget about the average joe the person who doesn't play videogames or doesn't program computers i pity them
Hello and thank you so much for all the constructive comments - apart from that stupid anonymous biter who apparently can´t read... where did I write anything about storage capacity myself? Moron. Anyway, a big thanks to everyone else´s constructive comments.
ReplyDeleteRed Bull and Vodka, i guess you have your points,but really if xbox360 ran out of space on one disk they could always use 2 disk
ReplyDeletealot of that space will be used to just run things uncompressed.
ReplyDeletei'm sure it will also allow for games with insanely huge streaming worlds as well.
but alot of i guess "normal sized" games will use the space to hold uncompressed audio and all that good stuff, and it'll allow for a more polished feel on blu-ray games.
hd-dvd and blu-ray are both good formats but blu-ray is going to be in ps3. that's going to be at least 50 million units, and that's me giving the competition credit.
Falafelkid: "Hello and thank you so much for all the constructive comments - apart from that stupid anonymous biter who apparently can´t read... where did I write anything about storage capacity myself? Moron. Anyway, a big thanks to everyone else´s constructive comments. "
ReplyDeleteWow, I thought more of you Falafelkid. Who knew you were the kind of person to call people the same names elementary school kids on the playground call one another.
Blu-ray should be good for games with all of the space it has, like the GC minidisk was good for loading things fast. I don't see why there can't be a media that only devotes itself to one thing, for the time being at least.
ReplyDelete4 layer of HD-dvd provide 60GB That too big already.
ReplyDeleteBut if you need really *Big* space. Iomega Corporation Tell that thay found a way to make a normal dvd to have 800 gigabyte.(just change the way to read and write) O_o
ya 8 time Blu-ray Disc.
and seem cheaper than than Blu-ray Disc.
Remember - most of the early PS2 games were on CD not DVD - So Blue-Ray is something no-nedd but expensive.
ok i dont know alot about this kinda stuff but after reading the last half of the posts i was wondering whats going to happen to the nintendo revolution.
ReplyDeleteif they use dvd discs wouldnt they start to run outa space near the middle of the revo's lifetime too?
or wouldnt the ported games on the revo feel compressed and less polished than games on other systems?
i know the format taht nintendo is gona use hasn't been announced yet but isn't nintendo choosing not to enter this format war? what other formats are there that they could use? sry if i sound stupid because i realy dont know anything about this stuff
Rev doesn't need as much space if it doesn't have HD. It still needs a lot, but not as much as PS3 and 360 to have as large of worlds. If Nintendo decides to hop on the HD-DVD bandwagen then they'll have some of the biggest games ever made.
ReplyDeleteI don't say that.
ReplyDeleteIt's just ps3 is now nearly 7-800$. not include joystick.
while x-box sale at 399 plus 20g HDD. (it's 1/2)
and
Revolution under 200 $ (it's 1/4)
so ps3 too expensive
Remember - there is still small among of game that used dvd9 (9gb) and used them all.
and
HD-dvd as big as 60gb. and multi disk (like final fantasy 7) is possible.
while
bure-ray is twice expensive (mean I can buy 2 HD-dvd (60*2=120 gb) in same prize of one bure-ray disk(100 gb))
in the end if you write a text in to a dvd (yes dvd) you can used it till you die. and then think about game-maker
(ya ya thay have picture and video but multi disk or compression video is still there too - if you don't mind mp3 or even audio cd is kind of compression too the real one is only analog not any digital -)
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSS! I thought that I would feel lonely thinking that PS3 costs to much. Thanks Anonymous who posted at 8:25 PM. Lead the way to opening everyones eyes. I hope that you continue to post, you and everyone else who feel the same way. YES, YES, YES, YES, YES. Some people out there actually KNOW THE TRUTH.
ReplyDeletedlphnmod, that isn't true.
ReplyDeleteEnchant Arms is an RPG and developers of that game were publicly complaining in August that they were having problems fitting their game onto DVD-9 media BEFORE they got to FMV.
NO ONE here knows the price of Blu-ray or HD-DVD, so stop calling it ridiculous when you don't, CAN'T know what it is.
ReplyDeleteAt least wait for them to announce prices or release the product at a price point.
Stop jumping the gun with this speculation purported as fact.
Ps3 will have
ReplyDeleteIntel p4 cell cpu (The Best of Intel)
Nvidia Rsx gpu (Nvidia say it's twice now best of Nvidia)
Blue-Ray disk (New production line by sony)
Multi-card render (Not just memory stick)
All wireless joystick (No slot for old joystick any more)
just P4 cell and Rsx it's price will surely ridiculous.
fact-sony : sony been decide to remove "router" couse of it's will make ps3 too ridiculous prize.
fact-sony : Blue-Ray and driver must make a new production line. and yes Blue-Ray have a new technology so it's price is at less 100$/unit (driver). this price will reduce in the long run. (but will it alive?).
fact-microsoft : HD-dvd used old DVD production line just edit it. so it's will 20% more expensive than DVD (for disk) and this price will reduce in the long run too. (so it's not that big).
----------------------------------------------------------
If microsoft using HD-dvd. that Blue-Ray disk might not going to next HD tv video format. So Sony can't reduce (surely ridiculous) prize of ps3.
Same way if ps3 not lead this next-gen console Blue-Ray will slowly die like Betamax or MD.
Not every one (But some one) will buy ridiculous prize console.
-so ps3 will not lead this next-gen console.
fact : it's too soon to say that ps3 will ridiculous prize but P4 cell and Rsx - -a .. sony must found a way to make some money ... if it still exist. after microsoft used HD-dvd.
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While that two fighting. Nintendo say we priority how fun our console will "not" how picture the game will. and it will cheper than 200$
"Ps3 will have
ReplyDeleteIntel p4 cell cpu (The Best of Intel)"
Whoever wrote the above is very confused.
The Cell came out of a partnership between Sony, IBM, and Toshiba.
Sorry I miss that.
ReplyDeleteBoth "IBM" and "Intel" are support cell cpu. (So only "NEW" cell's intel cpu computer can speed up if ps3 is there)
event it's IBM's cell cpu it's The best of next gen console's cpu ? (So cpu will mose expensive any way)
and just Rsx gpu (just gpu) can match 200$
Blue-Ray dirver can match 100$
and other device have there (expensive) price too.
Sorry I think ps3 will ridiculous expensive anyway.
but sony must found a way to make some money. And ya i will look forword to it. and not buy any too fast.
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ps3 might successfull but ...
cost of the ps3 is the point.
- if sony sale ps3 at it's cost it's will too expensive.
- if sony sale ps3 less than it's cost. each unit of game must add some price. so each unit of ps3 will expensive (not the media as n64 but ps3 debit) and yes 100% price for media Blue-Ray disk if used it.
developer will don't like it
- form ps3 cost or each unit game price. number of people who buy it might less than other two that cheap. -eg. revolution price will match just rsx gpu (just gpu)- so the change that people who buy the game will reduce. *and more price* if use Blue-Ray media (20% up for HD dvd for x-box ... but Blue-Ray will more). Old developer know this point.
- Blue-Ray is too big for new developer so it will unused for them.
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n64 not successfull at all. The successfull is one that take more sum of (price - cost) (N64 have too big cost/unit -it's media-) so that time ps(1) successfull
I want what will happen in the future of Dell and HP both have pledged for the Blu-Ray.
ReplyDeleteBut now that Microsoft is with HD-DVD, what will happen to them? Microsoft might blackmail them. You don't support us so you won't have Windows of your computers.
And if you want to know, The porn industry is with the HD-DVD. The same industry that chose VHS over Betamax. The same history might happen. Movies companies pledged for the Betamax and the VHS won.
For the video games industry, I don't see any developpers make a game with a disk with 50GB in storage. The 103 announced games for the PS3 are mostly remakes or sequels.
As many of you readers know I am a Gay Nintendo Blogger. If you are new here understand that I am a Homosexual and proud of it.
ReplyDeleteI am also a Nintendo Maniac. Therefore I am a Gay Nintendo fan. Come here not because I gay but because I am a good journalist. If you are a single man email me.
Power to the Rainbow!
Blu-Ray is definitely the better format!
ReplyDeleteRed Suede Square-Toed Flat With Buckle. Roger Vivier - Flats.Black Pointed-Toe Flats With Heart-Shaped Leopard Accent.Hello everyone roger vivier flats , Do you have a pair or more pairs of Roger Vivier CHIPS flats or pumps? Upload some pictures of your beloved Roger Vivier.everything is sold w/a money-back, satisfaction guarantee roger vivier pumps . visit our store. Item Description : label: Roger Vivier fabric: genuine leather color: brown.roger vivier flats shoes, footwear, rv, flats vsvdfan , fashion shoes roger vivier sale , roger vivier - Shoes and Footwear roger vivier,White Material: Patent Leather ... Roger Vivier flats in white patent leather with slight pink wash to them.
ReplyDelete